Eating Carbs at Night: How You Can Get Leaner, Gain More Muscle, and Sleep Better

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Eating Carbs at Night: How You Can Get Leaner, Gain More Muscle, and Sleep Better

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PropaneFitness

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Why You Should Eat Carbs at Night

A common diet myth, repeated by broscientists, is that you shouldn’t eat carbs at night because you’ll get fat. But not only is that not true, you may experience improved fat loss and muscle gains!

Insulin is a nutrient storage hormone, in particular it is responsible for the uptake of glucose from the blood in muscle and fat cells . Carbohydrates and protein have the greatest impact on insulin secretion, while fat has little to no impact. Insulin sensitivity refers to how well you respond to insulin; if you are insulin sensitive then you require normal or low levels of insulin to transport glucose.

(c) Uwe Hermann - http://www.flickr.com/photos/uwehermann/

Insulin sensitivity is higher earlier in the day, but it is higher in both muscle and fat cells. That means that consuming a typical large, carbohydrate rich, breakfast may lead to fat gain. Later in the day, when insulin sensitivity is decreased in both muscle and fat cells, is the ideal time to train. Resistance training induces GLUT4 (1) translocation to the muscle cell membranes, allowing glucose to be transported to the muscle cells. That means that a high carb post-workout meal is less likely to contribute to fat gain, and more likely to result in muscle gain.

A recent study (2) shows that eating the majority of your carbs at night results in faster fat loss, improved satiety, better leptin levels and insulin sensitivity, and lower blood glucose. And since carbs stimulate the production of serotonin (3), you will sleep better too.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLUT4

[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475137

[3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351

Eating Carbs at Night: How You Can Get Leaner, Gain More Muscle, and Sleep Better
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September 20, 2011 - 12:32 AM #
ruaidhri

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Posts: 1,452

have you forgotten that insulin also shuttles amino acids into muscle cells?

MDMA increases serotonin levels but certainly won't help you get to sleep. sleep cycles and serotonin levels are complex and it's not as simple as increasing serotonin levels for a short time at night helping you sleep better, from what i've read...

"For me life is continuously being hungry. The meaning of life is not simply to exist, to survive, but to move ahead, to go up, to achieve, to conquer" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"the ones wanting to be 'toned' still have bodybuilding goals, they just don't realise it" - Yusef

September 20, 2011 - 01:02 AM #
Nick

Pulls Quite Hard
Posts: 761

i eat carbs at night, i'm fat, hence carbs at night make you fat

Bodibildengom - Always believe in yourself, me too many people said that I had not. I've never listened to no one. Always do as you think. believe in yourself and in your dream and of course in sports

*SoClose*

September 20, 2011 - 01:22 AM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

Of course insulin shuttles aminos, but that's not the point of the article. If you eat carbs for breakfast then you may well be shuttling aminos, but also shuttling glucose into fat cells. If you're going to eat carbs, it's more favourable to have them in the evening.

I don't even lift.

September 20, 2011 - 01:26 AM #
Ziga

Member
Posts: 356

my thoughts exactly...

I used to superset my deads with heavy breathing

September 20, 2011 - 07:18 AM #
ruaidhri

Big
Posts: 1,452

@ ben: yeah but surely if insulin sensitivity is greater in morning then you could equally argue it would be better to train in morning because the postworkout carbs will elicit a greater degree of protein synthesis due to the increased transport of aminos into muscle cells? and i don't think fat gain from carbs is really a concern in the postworkout window.

personally i think the total daily carbs (and cals) for an individual would have a lot more to do with fat gain/loss then whether you eat them at morning or night. is the difference in insulin sensitivity (between morning and night) significant? and does resistance training not increase insulin sensitivity temporarily anyway?

it is of course a myth that eating carbs at night makes you fat but don't believe it's necessarily the best time to consume your carb intake. john berardi believes the 3 best times to eat carbs are before/after workouts and first meal of the day.

"For me life is continuously being hungry. The meaning of life is not simply to exist, to survive, but to move ahead, to go up, to achieve, to conquer" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"the ones wanting to be 'toned' still have bodybuilding goals, they just don't realise it" - Yusef

September 20, 2011 - 12:09 PM #
Yusef

Editor
Posts: 2,581

What I got from the article was that training allows muscle tissue to absorb glucose via non-insulin mediated transport, so by training in the morning and then eating lots of carbs postworkout, you are still getting several of the benefits, whereas fat cells are less sensitive at night. HOWEVER - Even if fat cells are sensitised to insulin in the mornings, there is research that suggests that to add bodyfat from carbs alone is very difficult.

and i don't think fat gain from carbs is really a concern in the postworkout window.

I'm really undecided if it would make a significant difference, but I guess if you're more concerned about fat gain then night-training is a safer bet.

"You should just run smolov base cycle." - Harrison's advice for all ailments known to man

September 20, 2011 - 12:19 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,402

Been doing some reading on this recently:

The idea is: carbs and fat are shuttled TO a cell by insulin, they are then transported INTO a cell, an adipocyte or muscle cell by GLUT transporters. Carbs are transported by GLUT4.

GLUT4 can be activated by insulin and by sufficient training stimulus.

Due to circadian patterns you are insulin sensitive in the first 8-10 hours of waking, with a linear decrease and you are insulin resistant in the evening. So, at night the conditions for nutrient storage are at their worst.

Therefore, optimally, a glucagon dominant state should be maintained during the first portion of the day.

Given that training activates GLUT4 and causes the translocation of existing GLUT4 from fat to muscle cells we can create an extremely favourable environment for glycogen storage in muscle cells by backloading carbs in the evening after a training session.

Optimally, fat should be deprioritized at this time, however, fat can be transported via GLUT mechanisms in a similar manner.

So Roo: obviously a deficit or surplus cannot be ignored however the hypothesis is that assuming equal calories, nutrients scheduled
In the above manner will lead to favourable changes in body comp.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

November 22, 2011 - 03:06 PM #
Harrison

Forever Smolov
Posts: 2,195

So surely if you were not concerned with fat gain and wanted optimal muscle gain you would train and eat in the morning?

Whereas otherwise its best to eat around when you train?

What happens if you train in the morning then wait for the evening to eat carbs?

increasing numbers when it matters is all that matters - Donny Shankle

November 22, 2011 - 03:50 PM #
Ben

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Posts: 1,786

Harrison said:
So surely if you were not concerned with fat gain and wanted optimal muscle gain you would train and eat in the morning?

Whereas otherwise its best to eat around when you train?

I think it's best to eat around when you train anyway. There are other issues here with morning training, the ratio of testosterone to cortisol is more favourable later in the day. If you want optimal strength or muscle gain, you should probably train in the evening.

Harrison said:
What happens if you train in the morning then wait for the evening to eat carbs?

I've done this for several months, following an IF protocol where I would consume only BCAAs peri-workout with one large post-workout meal in the evening.

The increase in GLUT4 persists for a long time after exercising; and there was a study (on animals) indicating that increased muscle insulin sensitivity lasted for about 48 hours, assuming they remained carbless.

Protein synthesis continues to increase for over 48-hours. And although protein breakdown increases following resistance training, it eventually drops back to base levels after 48-hours.

I don't even lift.

November 22, 2011 - 04:19 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,402

You would actually be favouring fat gain - by backloading calories and carbs to post-evening workout you are creating the most anabolic environment possible.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

November 22, 2011 - 04:49 PM #
Harrison

Forever Smolov
Posts: 2,195

ah cool, cheers for the responses

im assuming that your post is directed to my first question Jonny.

I like to train in the afternoon around 6pm and then eat the vast majority of my food afterwards because it is the only time I am actually hungry.

To Ben and Jonny what are your experiences like with training like this particularly in big movements i.e. squat/deadlift because personally, I have done one or maybe two sessions of smolov "fested" (drinking gatorade + BCAAs + creatine pre and during workout) and I really didn't feel that bad. I do attribute this to eating loads the night before though.

I know I could do a moderate workout without eating much beforehand, but I think eating something beforehand helps, at least mentally for big heavy sessions.

eg porridge + rasisins + banana - few hours later gruelling smolov session - eat 2000calories at mcdonalds - few hours later eat something small at home (could be yoghurt oats and fruit, could be chicken and rice) has been a staple for the 10x3 session over the last few weeks

on normal days replace mcdonalds with say outrageous amounts of chili + rice + sweet potatoes or roast dinner etc

thats a typical workout day for me, do you guys think it would actually be better to replace the morning meal with low or zero carbs? And do you also think that doing this would not adversely affect performance?

the question I am asking myself is how have I barely gained a few kilos eating like this... (started at 92-93kg, weighed 94kg this morning)

Also, eating like this has made me seriously consider ADF, because I do not feel like eating on rest days until very late in the evening as I am so damn full from the previous day.

increasing numbers when it matters is all that matters - Donny Shankle

November 22, 2011 - 05:39 PM #
Nick

Pulls Quite Hard
Posts: 761

what you eat the day before training is more important than what u eat before training
IMO

Bodibildengom - Always believe in yourself, me too many people said that I had not. I've never listened to no one. Always do as you think. believe in yourself and in your dream and of course in sports

*SoClose*

November 22, 2011 - 05:59 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,402

There are plenty of studies suggesting that carbs actually decrease performance when eaten before activity

I find performance is much better with no carbs pre-workout, even with heavy, high volume lifting.
You could perhaps ingest some simple sugars around 20-30 minutes into the session but the best case is a session at 4-5pm lasting an hour or two with most calories and all carbohydrates consumed after. The leading proponents of this suggest that with a eurocaloric intake you can experience simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain. Obviously this is a lofty claim. However, as I have said in the past, IMO, X kcal vs X kcal with better partitioning will ALWAYS yeild better results in performance and body composition. if it's as simple as eating carbs in the evening after training, I'd try it.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

November 22, 2011 - 06:36 PM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

Harrison said:
To Ben and Jonny what are your experiences like with training like this particularly in big movements i.e. squat/deadlift because personally, I have done one or maybe two sessions of smolov "fested" (drinking gatorade + BCAAs + creatine pre and during workout) and I really didn't feel that bad. I do attribute this to eating loads the night before though.

Nick said:
what you eat the day before training is more important than what u eat before training
IMO

That's exactly what I felt the big evening meal was, fuel for the morning session the next day (at about 8am). There should be plenty of muscle glycogen and amino acids from that meal still floating about (assuming you eat quite late), with BCAAs to appease the catabolism monster. I experimented with coconut oil or MCT oil before training, following a sort of carb backloading scheme, which I guess answers your other question to some extent. Some sort of protein/fat meal (although I'd avoid eating anything substantial) would be fine, like a scoop of whey with some nuts or something. The fasting should help counteract the effects of a high protein diet by resensitising you to amino acids, so you don't want to consume a lot of protein and potentially oxidise it all for energy.

I don't even lift.

November 22, 2011 - 06:56 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,402

If you have to train in the morning:

No breakfast
Wo -30: 1 tbsp coconut oil or MCTs (optional but may promote ketone production and stimulate fat burning, BCAAs (10-20g)
Wo+10: 20-30g short-chain carbs (glucose or near enough), 10-20g BCAAs

Rest of the day until evening, no carbs ( I would fast ala Ben).

POUND the coffee - it promotes insulin resistance, thus allowing you to return to the state you want to be in in the evening.

Evening - eat carbs (lots).

When following this protocol I would eat maintenance.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

November 22, 2011 - 07:08 PM #
Yusef

Editor
Posts: 2,581

the ratio of testosterone to cortisol is more favourable later in the day.

I always thought higher in the mornings because of morning wood etc., although I guess cortisol is higher too. I checked the research and you're right. So is it that cortisol drops while testosterone keeps increasing during the day?

"You should just run smolov base cycle." - Harrison's advice for all ailments known to man

November 22, 2011 - 08:06 PM #
CJC

Member
Posts: 304

From the review paper: Interactions of cortisol, testosterone, and resistance training: influence of circadian rhythms.

"Optimal adaptations to resistance training (muscle hypertrophy and strength increases) also seem to occur in the late afternoon, which is interesting, since cortisol and, particularly, testosterone (T) concentrations are higher in the morning."

"The morning elevated T level (seen as beneficial to achieve muscle hypertrophy) may be counteracted by the morning elevated C level and, therefore, protein degradation. Although T levels are higher in the morning, an increased resistance exercise-induced T response has been found in the late afternoon, suggesting greater responsiveness of the hypothalamo-pituitary-testicular axis then."

I've seen a few studies suggesting that from a performance perspective mid-morning, about 3-4 hours after waking, and late afternoon are the best times to train. The above review indicates that late afternoon is best out of these two times. Consistency of training time has also been found to be influential.

Not relevant to this discusion, but I also found this interesting:

"Individual responsiveness has also been observed, with some participants experiencing greater hypertrophy and strength increases in response to strength protocols, whereas others respond preferentially to power, hypertrophy, or strength endurance protocols dependent on which protocol elicited the greatest T response."

November 22, 2011 - 08:36 PM #
Joe

Propane Athlete
Posts: 821

Ben and Jerry: Are you guys still ingesting MCT/coconoil on fast days? If not, why?

November 22, 2011 - 11:46 PM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

No, for the following reasons:

- It's simpler to just eat nothing, and drink some green tea or coffee during the day.
- Unless I ate some fibre during the day, I'd be worried that oil would produce some unpleasant gastric side effects (don't want to rush to the toilet because I'm about to explode with medium chain grimness).
- I don't want to take in that many calories if I'm not training, especially not if it will affect fat burning, which it will do by providing an immediate source of energy.
- It's expensive to do that, even if there are potential synergisms with GH release.

I'd rather use MCTs when I spike insulin by ingesting carbs, since they inhibit lipogenesis in the presence of insulin.

I don't even lift.

November 23, 2011 - 12:02 AM #
Nick

Pulls Quite Hard
Posts: 761

This is confusing

il just finish my kitkat +mince and hope for the best

Bodibildengom - Always believe in yourself, me too many people said that I had not. I've never listened to no one. Always do as you think. believe in yourself and in your dream and of course in sports

*SoClose*

November 23, 2011 - 12:14 AM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

Nick said:
This is confusing

il just finish my kitkat +mince and hope for the best

Kitkat chunky? If it was a normal one you are probably going catabolic already.

I don't even lift.

November 23, 2011 - 12:18 AM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

Nick said:
This is confusing

il just finish my kitkat +mince and hope for the best

Kitkat chunky? If it was a normal one you are probably going catabolic already.

I don’t even lift.
I don't even lift.

November 23, 2011 - 12:18 AM #
Nick

Pulls Quite Hard
Posts: 761

always kitkat chunky

Bodibildengom - Always believe in yourself, me too many people said that I had not. I've never listened to no one. Always do as you think. believe in yourself and in your dream and of course in sports

*SoClose*

November 23, 2011 - 12:24 AM #
Harrison

Forever Smolov
Posts: 2,195

already finished my pizza + cadbury roses that I ate in the evening to prevent fat gain.

I am still confused, the article is saying eat your carbs in the afternoon, ie eat P + F all day, but Jonny and Ben are saying dont eat until afternoon (IF, leangains style) effectively.

Im not convinced that I should do this over the next month or so but I will try it at some point.

increasing numbers when it matters is all that matters - Donny Shankle

November 23, 2011 - 12:39 AM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

Harrison said:
I am still confused, the article is saying eat your carbs in the afternoon, ie eat P + F all day, but Jonny and Ben are saying dont eat until afternoon (IF, leangains style) effectively.

It's the same principle: carb backloading. But whether or not you choose to fast, the principle is the same. I wrote the article without mentioning fasting, because it's not necessary to get the benefit of eating carbs in the evening.

I don't even lift.

November 23, 2011 - 12:50 AM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,402

As usual, agree with Ben. IF and CB compliment each other perfectly but there is no reason you can't backload carbs while eating during the day. However, I'd say there is certainly enough info to suggest that you should at least be avoiding breakfast.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

November 23, 2011 - 01:07 AM #
Harrison

Forever Smolov
Posts: 2,195

Ah cool, well I might try basic P+F during the day, carbs post workout in the evening for now then, and when I change program try it with full fasting.

Would you still apply the guidelines of eating a small amount (ie nuts + whey) or would eating bacon and eggs for breakfast instead of porridge+fruit be alright?

increasing numbers when it matters is all that matters - Donny Shankle

November 23, 2011 - 01:12 AM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 1,786

Harrison said:
Would you still apply the guidelines of eating a small amount (ie nuts + whey) or would eating bacon and eggs for breakfast instead of porridge+fruit be alright?

Doesn't matter about food choices, so long as they're P+F dominant, with let's say < 10g carbs total (for the sake of argument). If anything I would prefer bacon and eggs to nuts and whey. It's really a matter of what is convenient. If you are not fasting or following some sort of modified fast then I see no reason to restrict yourself like that.

I don't even lift.

November 23, 2011 - 01:22 AM #
Ian

Propane Athlete
Posts: 817

I love carbs late at night. On feeding days I have a P+F meal (scrambled eggs, ryvita and soft cheese) and coffee around 8am which means I'm not hungry during the day, then pre-workout porridge/raisins/whey/choco shreddies & coffee at 3-4pm, then training, then I stuff myself all evening. Great fun.

I think some carbs pre-training are a good idea on ADF, but if eating every day then I agree with Jonny better without.

November 23, 2011 - 01:23 AM #

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